Episode #49: Meet the Startup Building Secure Data Warehouses for Our Ever-Changing World

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  Sam:
  Today we talked with the co-founder and CEO of a decentralized data warehouse. What does that mean? Let’s find out.

  Nate Holiday:
  I think as you look at this world that we’re moving into, you need to be able to verify and you need to have transparency across that database operation. You can’t just allow an AI agent to have access to your bank account. You can’t allow them to have access to your credit cards. Put simply, we ensure that anything that is operating in a database can’t be manipulated and that you have transparency and verifiability for that application that it’s running on.

  Sam:
  Hello everyone. Welcome back to this episode of the Tech Optimist: Meet the Startup. Today we met Space and Time, a company that provides a decentralized data warehouse. Now first, the voices that you’re going to hear in this episode are Ray Wu. He is the AV guide for our guest today. Ray Wu is a managing partner at Alumni Ventures for the AI Fund. And then our guest today is Nate Holiday, CEO and co-founder at Space and Time. And then of course you’ll hear me. My name is Sam and I am the tech note writer and narrative sculptor for this podcast.

  A little bit about what this episode is mostly about today: Space and Time, as I said earlier, is a decentralized data warehouse. Data warehouses are where businesses are processing all of their data in order to interact with their consumers more regularly.

  As a reminder, the Tech Optimist podcast is for informational purposes only. It’s not personalized advice and it’s not an offer to buy or sell securities. For additional important details, please see the text description accompanying this episode.

  Ray Wu:
  Hi, my name’s Ray Wu, managing partner at Alumni Ventures. Today I’m speaking with Nate, the CEO and the founder of Space and Time. We’re excited to be part of Space and Time’s current funding round and to embark on this journey together. Nate, before we dive into the product details here, please introduce yourself and your company.

  Nate Holiday:
  Absolutely, Ray, thanks for having me on. Like Ray mentioned, I’m co-founder and CEO for Space and Time. I spent over a decade in the database and data warehousing industry working at companies like Teradata Corporation based out of San Diego, which is a large-scale enterprise data warehousing company that’s publicly traded. I spent a lot of time within the ETL management tools within the industry as well.

  Space and Time is a next-generation data warehouse. It’s a decentralized data warehouse built for the blockchain to ensure that we can verify applications and verify data that is being processed in the database to ensure that manipulation hasn’t occurred within a database as it connects to a smart contract or an AI agent or an autonomous business process, whether it’s an enterprise application or a DeFi protocol, etc. You can think of Space and Time as this verifiable compute layer for AI and blockchain.

  We built a decentralized data warehouse that comes preloaded with indexed blockchain data from major chains and allows developers to join it with their own on-chain and off-chain datasets. One of the core technologies is this concept called Proof of SQL. It’s the first sub-second ZK co-processor and enables developers to ZK-prove their query results in Space and Time to facilitate sophisticated and data-driven smart contracts and verifiable AI. Put simply, we ensure that anything that is operating in a database can’t be manipulated and that you have transparency and verifiability for that application that it’s running on.

  Sam:
  As always, you guys know my MO when I’m making these episodes. I did a quick deep dive on Space and Time’s website. On their About page, I found a YouTube video that Space and Time has invested in, spending time animating it and crafting concise verbiage about their company, how they operate, and their mission and values. I’m going to play that now because I think that Nate’s company, Space and Time, does something complex that some people listening may not know about. First off, we’re going to play this video that is concise and clear about their technology and how it works. Here it is now—enjoy.

  Speaker 4:
  Digital automation brought the world’s business logic online in centralized systems that required brand trust from customers. Smart contracts have ushered in a new generation of business logic automation that operates with cryptographic guarantees. However, due to inherent limitations in storage and computation of blockchains, business logic has only just begun to be written into smart contracts.

  Adoption requires familiar tools that allow enterprises and dApp developers to bridge blockchain technology with centrally controlled databases and complex business logic. Doing so requires Space and Time processing both transactions and analytics in a single trustless environment, connecting data and business logic to and from major blockchains.

  We are partnering with the technology leaders of today’s logic and tomorrow’s automation to power the next wave of smart contract adoption in automating the business logic of the world.

  Ray Wu:
  That’s one thing I love about what you’ve done in technology, because I think it’s really essential to have that verification and trust in the dataset—not only in the computing—but also the belief that whatever is in the data can actually be trusted and not altered. That’s just wonderful in terms of what you’ve built. What inspired you to start this venture? Were there any industry catalysts or trends that influenced your decision?

  Nate Holiday:
  That’s a good question. Back in 2021, I started doing strategic advisory work for Chainlink. One of the things we were working on was how to drive enterprise adoption and enterprise data capabilities using blockchain and smart contract capabilities.

  We realized that most smart contracts and most applications within the Web3 and decentralized application industry were being run on centralized database services. This meant that the world of decentralized applications was actually centralized from a database processing perspective.

  Unfortunately, smart contracts are limited in processing size—they can’t process large amounts of data and are very slow. The challenge is: how do you have a decentralized application that needs a tremendous amount of data to be verifiable, so it can operate in combination with a blockchain and truly have decentralized applications and verifiable database processes?

  This is really the genesis of Space and Time. We saw that there wasn’t a database on the market that could be verified while running large-scale enterprise applications. While smart contracts were our initial focus, this verifiable application process really applies across any industry.

  We’re starting to see the evolution of AI agents. Everyone realizes that AI agents are transacting autonomously without human intervention—just like smart contracts operate autonomously without human intervention.

  Nate Holiday:
  And I think as you look at this world that we’re moving into, you need to be able to verify and you need to have transparency across that database operation. You can’t just allow an AI agent to have access to your bank account. You can’t allow them to have access to your credit cards. This has to start to operate in a way that is verifiable and transparent. Today, unfortunately, without Space and Time, all of these database processes are centralized. They can be manipulated, they can be tampered with. You really can’t trust a database to operate an AI agent or to operate a smart contract or to really operate any enterprise application in the world because of the security and lack of transparency within them.

  Ray Wu:
  Absolutely. It’s so important, especially with AI when it’s all about creativity. How do we know what to trust? This trust layer that you’re building out is essential. In terms of decentralization—it doesn’t matter if it’s centralized or decentralized—but for decentralized AI, it definitely is one of the core components to make it happen.

  Sam:
  Hey everyone, just taking a quick break so I can tell you about the AI Fund from Alumni Ventures. Alumni Ventures is one of the only VC firms focused on making venture capital accessible to individual investors like you. In fact, Alumni Ventures is one of the most active and highly rated VC firms in the U.S., and we co-invest alongside renowned lead investors. With our AI Fund, you’ll have the opportunity to invest in a portfolio built entirely around advancements in AI. This fund consists of 15 to 20 investments in multiple fields where AI is making a huge impact, including areas such as machine learning, healthcare, education, transportation, and more. To get started, visit us at av.vc/funds/AIFund. Now back to the show.

  Ray Wu:
  Can you share where you are in terms of product development and customer acquisition?

  Nate Holiday:
  Yeah, our database that we created, the decentralized data warehouse, is generally available. We have over half a million queries operating on the system through consumer and customer applications on a monthly basis. We have over 5 billion records being written to the database monthly. We just crossed four and a half million dollars of ARR within our first 12 months of our beta launch, which was last May at the Consensus Conference, where we kicked off beta. We’ve now launched Proof of SQL.

  Proof of SQL—think of it as a zk-SNARK for verifying in-database processing. The challenge in the past with zk-SNARKs in database processing is that it was very, very expensive and very, very slow. The exciting thing that we have accomplished with Proof of SQL—which is the marketing term we use for this in-database ZK verification process—is that we can operate a million-plus rows of ZK verification in less than a couple of seconds. We can sub-second verify hundred-thousand-row tables in a database using Proof of SQL on Space and Time.

  Sam:
  Really quick, I’m going to add in here and help define what ZK verification is. For those who don’t know, like me—I didn’t know what it was—I’m here to educate everyone so we’re all on the same page when we’re talking about this. Zero-knowledge verification refers to a cryptographic method that allows one party, the prover, to prove to another party, the verifier, that a statement is true without revealing any information beyond the validity of the statement itself.

  The core concept is that ZK verification enables proving knowledge about data without disclosing the actual data and maintains privacy while providing certainty about the truthfulness of a claim.

  Some properties of this:

  • Completeness: An honest prover can convince an honest verifier of a true statement.

  • Soundness: A dishonest prover cannot convince an honest verifier of a false statement.

  • Zero knowledge: The verifier learns nothing beyond the validity of the statement.

  Applications for this include cryptocurrency authentication, electronic voting, and secure data transfers. In crypto, it enhances transaction privacy. In authentication, it proves identity without revealing personal information—which sounds like an oxymoron, doesn’t it? (It does a little bit.)

  In electronic voting, it can ensure vote validity while maintaining voter privacy. In securing data transfers, it verifies computations on private data without exposing the data itself.

  Some general benefits include improving privacy in digital interactions, enhancing security and authentication processes, and scaling easily. It also helps with scalability solutions for blockchain networks such as Ethereum.

  Nate Holiday:
  I think the other exciting thing that we’ve been able to do—and we’re working with Google and Microsoft and others on this—is Proof of SQL can be embedded into any database for ZK verification. Think of Proof of SQL as the verification of SQL independent of what database you’re using.

  We announced last year an integration of Proof of SQL with Google BigQuery, and we also announced work we’ve started with Microsoft across Microsoft Fabric for in-database SQL verification. The reason that’s important is what you just said earlier, Ray: there are reasons you want to have a decentralized database for processing, but there are even more reasons you want any database running any process to be verified—independent of whether it’s decentralized or centralized.

  For us, it’s a pretty exciting world because we see a future where we can verify any SQL database processing using Proof of SQL as an embedded protocol within that database.

  Sam:
  Pause. We’re going to take a quick break here for an ad, and then we’re going to hop right back into the interview.

  Speaker 5:
  Do you have a venture capital portfolio of cutting-edge startups? Without one, you could be missing out on enormous value creation and a more diversified personal portfolio. Alumni Ventures, ranked a top twenty VC firm by CB Insights, is the leading VC firm for individual investors. Believe in investing in innovation. Visit av.vc.com to get started.

  Ray Wu:
  Could you share some details about your latest funding round?

  Nate Holiday:
  Yeah, we’re really excited to have our Series A closed and the announcement of our Series A funding round. We’re grateful for Alumni and for their support. We raised $20 million in our Series A investment round.

  It’s exciting for us because it allows us to really expand customer adoption. It allows us to build faster database processing protocols and helps us accelerate the adoption of Proof of SQL in database processing across our customer base.

  To date, we really haven’t spent money on business development and marketing. The growth we’ve had has been during a beta, pre-GA release, and we’re incredibly grateful for all the customer support and adoption we’ve had.

  But now, with our Series A funding, it allows us to put a lot of effort into customer adoption, ensuring our message is understood not just by blockchain and blockchain-adjacent companies and not just AI companies, but really any enterprise running an application. It ensures they have the ability to add visibility, transparency, and security.

  It really is a security protocol—ensuring that you can verify and ensure that the actual tamper-proofing of that database is secure for your users and for your corporation.

  Ray Wu:
  Indeed. Now you are obviously working on business development. Do you have any requests for our Alumni Ventures community, and how can we help you?

  Nate Holiday:
  Yeah, for us, obviously, the first one is: join our community. We have a community of developers and builders. If you’re out there building on a database that’s not verifiable, that’s not transparent, we’d ask you to come look at Space and Time. We have a fantastic community across Discord, the X platform, and LinkedIn. We also have a huge community within our GitHub, and much of what we’re building is out there in open source.

  We have a GPU accelerator, we have Proof of SQL, we have our database operations all on GitHub as well. You can come and build with us, develop with us, and improve what we’re doing alongside our open-source community. If you’re using a database today and you want something more secure and verifiable, there are easy ways to do that.

  You can consume it through Microsoft’s Azure marketplace, through Google’s marketplace, or directly via app.spaceandtime.ai. The next big task is to help us amplify this message of a verifiable database and a verifiable compute layer for enterprise applications, AI agents, and Web3 applications.

  Most people, when they hear about it, understand it’s needed—but they assume it already works. They assume databases running the applications they use every day are never going to get hacked. They assume the data is safe. They assume companies with 50,000 employees are always good actors, not bad actors. They assume companies with large-scale security and infrastructure organizations are doing everything to protect data—and, in many cases, they are.

  Our message is simple: the databases operating applications today are tamperable. They can be manipulated and changed. Why run a database operation that can be tampered with when you can have a tamper-proof, ZK-backed database for the same price or cheaper than market leaders in the cloud industry today? For us, it just makes sense.

  We think about this every day, but for the average CIO or CTO—or even the average user—they’re not asking: Is my database verifiable? Is it transparent? Does it run zk-SNARKs in-database? Does it have cryptography for security and protection? These are new concepts.

  We see a world in 10 years where it will sound foreign for a CEO, a board of directors, a CTO, or a CIO to operate a database that can be manipulated because the risk is too high, and the cost is already in line with their budgets. They’ll have the ability to provide verifiable database processing. As corporations build applications and as new businesses and engineers create applications, they’ll be able to do it more cheaply and in a verified infrastructure with Space and Time—something they can’t do anywhere else.

  It’s an important message, but it’s a new message that many people haven’t considered yet.

  Ray Wu:
  Indeed. Like you mentioned, most people are used to what’s already available. For them, this is just what it is, and they treat it as truth—they believe the infrastructure is trustworthy. But then you see hacks all the time from major organizations. It doesn’t matter where it’s from—I keep getting credit reports saying, “Something got hacked, you should make sure to watch your credit report.”

  Trust and security have been major themes across the IT industry for the longest time. From the mainframe era onward, we’ve been talking about these issues, but nobody has had great technology to solve them. I think with decentralized services, blockchain, and new technologies like ZK that enable verification, transparency, and traceability of data, it’s wonderful to finally have these capabilities.

  That’s why we enjoy the opportunity to invest alongside you in your company, and we look forward to seeing your continued success.

  Nate Holiday:
  We’re super grateful for all your support. You have a huge community and you’re obviously wildly successful in the VC and venture capital investment space. Congratulations—I saw the top 20 VC rankings and you’re always on the list. We’re just grateful for your support.

  To your point, there’s a lot of focus on preventing hacking, but not much focus on what happens if they do get access to your database. Can they manipulate it, change it, tamper with it? There’s an additional level of security we’re excited about.

  We could talk about the foundational technology and why it’s important and unique, but at the end of the day, it comes down to this: developers want to build new applications. They want to build in new ways within the Web3 community, at the intersection of blockchain and AI. They want to generate applications, develop their own economies, and deploy them to their communities.

  Look at any successful business today—Spotify, YouTube, the Salesforce marketplace, even Apple’s App Store. It all comes down to: Can I develop applications and run a new business? Can I monetize this and win in the economy? Is there a community to deploy to—people who will consume it on the platform?

  We’re excited about Space and Time because we believe it checks all three of those boxes.

  Ray Wu:
  Indeed. It’s been a great pleasure to have you here with us today, and I’ve definitely enjoyed this conversation.

  Nate Holiday:
  Thanks so much for having me, Ray.

  Sam:
  Thanks again for tuning into the Tech Optimist. If you enjoyed this episode, we’d really appreciate it if you’d give us a rating on whichever podcast app you’re using. And remember to subscribe to keep up with each episode.

  The Tech Optimist welcomes any questions, comments, or segment suggestions. Please email us at [email protected] with any of those, and be sure to visit our website at av.vc. As always, keep building.