Episode #48: Three Breakthroughs: Tech Bro Cities, Making Money in Space, and AI Recruiting Is Already Here

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  Sam Herrick:
  A utopic city in California, moon caves, and AI hiring. We’ve got a good one for you. Hang tight.

  Michael Peri:
  But also, given where we invest, Mike, it’s the perfect showcase for the future of energy usage, energy storage, and how you actually bring these somewhat theoretical advances in technology into everyday living. Investing in space isn’t just sci-fi anymore. There are real use cases.

  Mike Collins:
  Careers are going to be made, legends are going to be made. The most valuable companies in the world are eventually going to be ones that master space. So we’re going to play, that’s for sure.

  Sam Herrick:
  Hello, welcome back to this episode of the Tech Optimist. We have a Three Breakthroughs episode for you today, and we have the classic hosts behind this segment of the show. We have Mike Collins, Founder and CEO at Alumni Ventures. And then, of course, we have his partner in crime for this segment for a few weeks, Michael Peri. He’s a Partner at Alumni Ventures. And then you’ll probably recognize my voice. My name is Sam, and I’m the guide, editor, and narrative curator for this podcast.

  So, I’m going to give you a little snippet of what the two are talking about today. The first topic they bring up is about the California Forever Utopia City. They talk about what it means to build a utopia city, how it affects new technologies, and the new investments and companies that could spring up because of all this new needed technology. It’s a cool conversation.

  The second breakthrough is about the network of caves on the moon. These guys talk about how important it is to invest in space in the future, how crucial it is to get into the space sector, and they discuss lava tubes.

  The last breakthrough today is AI in hiring practices. Mike and Mike talk about what that means for the future of hiring and any potential biases that could arise with AI technology being the brain behind it all.

  So, I’m going to stop yapping and let’s get right into the episode. Hang tight and we hope you enjoy it.

  As a reminder, the Tech Optimist podcast is for informational purposes only. It’s not personalized advice and it is not an offer to buy or sell securities. For additional important details, please see the text description accompanying this episode.

  Mike Collins:
  Hey, and welcome to this week’s episode of Tech Optimist, Three Breakthroughs. I am joined today by Mike Peri in our Chicago offices, and I’m Mike Collins. I am the founder and CEO of Alumni Ventures. On this show, I get together with one of my colleagues to talk about interesting technologies that are happening and are potentially investible for us. So, Mike, how are you doing?

  Michael Peri:
  Doing great. Excited to talk today. I feel like we have a lot of timely subjects to discuss, so I’m happy to kick it off if you’re good with that, Mike.

  Mike Collins:
  Yeah, kick it off. What do you get?

  Michael Peri:
  All right, so first, in recent news, I really want to talk about this exciting development that could change the way we think about urban living and urban planning. I want you to imagine a community that’s going to combine all the cutting-edge technology that you’re hearing about in terms of sustainable practices and modern living.

  It’s really fascinating to me and, not surprisingly, fascinating to Mark Andreessen and his family, as they’re aiming for a new subdivision near the proposed California Forever utopian city.

  So, at a high level, what’s going to make this unique is that it goes beyond just building homes. It’s really about integrating smart technology and sustainable infrastructure to enhance quality of life.

  You can imagine this neighborhood where your houses are energy efficient, the streets are designed to reduce traffic, there are abundant green spaces, and you have a sense of communal living. But also, given where we invest, Mike, it’s the perfect showcase for the future of energy usage and storage—how you actually bring these somewhat theoretical advances in technology into everyday living.

  For me, I saw this and thought, “Super cool kind of mantelpiece of what it can do,” but I’m really hopeful that it’ll start to influence regulatory thinking and the future of what planning looks like in cities and even rural planning.

  There’s a lot here that I think we can lean into and say, “This is going to be the future of living.” All these innovations we’ve seen and invested in will need to find their way into everyday life. It’s fascinating to see some of these early groups coming together and saying, “Here’s an example of this. We’re going to be the first to do it and hopefully we can replicate it from there.”

  Mike Collins:
  What I love about this is that experiments are good. We’ve had a long human history of utopian societies that usually don’t pan out as utopian, but they still move the ball forward a bit.

  We’ve seen big technology shifts like the automobile, some real positives, and then some negatives: the suburban trend, gutting of cities and downtown areas, and the railroad’s impact on certain towns when highways came by.

  That’s the story of progress. With all these technologies we’re excited about—from self-driving cars and distributed grids to innovation in energy—it will impact how people live and where they live. We need people trying new stuff. We learn from what works and toss out what doesn’t.

  Whether these particular efforts succeed or fail, they’re powerful because people with money, power, and willingness to push the envelope are trying radical new approaches. That’s how progress happens for everyone.

  I wish we had more of these experiments happening in more places and at different scales because there is so much potential in where and how we live. This whole suburban McMansion thing has real drawbacks, so I’m all for it. It’s one worth watching.

  Michael Peri:
  Yeah, definitely. I mean, at the end of the day, at a minimum, it’s going to force engagement at a community level. What do we think about this stuff? How do we engage with one another about it?

  Mike Collins:
  These are trade-offs of values. Money, cost, affordability, and access all matter. So, thumbs up for more experiments for sure.

  Michael Peri:
  Yeah, for sure.

  Sam Herrick:
  As far as experiments go within city planning and architectural representation and design, some of you may know from listening to this podcast that I have an architectural background. Part of my education in Boston involved learning about architectural history and failed projects or attempts.

  One of my favorites that I’ve seen firsthand is Eero Saarinen’s 1948 landscape design that surrounds the Gateway Arch in St. Louis, Missouri.

  In the museum underneath the Arch is a massive architectural model of the city and what Saarinen wanted to design along with the Arch. Spoiler alert—it never ended up happening. But seeing a physical representation of someone’s utopian idea for St. Louis reminded me of this breakthrough Mike brought up.

  I also found a really good journalistic-style video by TechCrunch that digs more into this breakthrough and the story behind this utopian city and California Forever, the company involved in it. I’m going to play that really quick, then we’ll do an ad, and then we’ll get right back into Mike’s breakthrough for this episode. Hang tight.

  Amanda Silberling:
  Over the last several years, a hot-shot crew of billionaire tech investors has been trying to build their very own utopian city through a real estate developer called California Forever. With supporters like Michael Moritz, Reid Hoffman, and Mark Andreessen, this project sought to create a walkable city that could house up to 400,000 people on 60,000 acres of land north of San Francisco.

  But the project hit a serious speed bump last month when California Forever withdrew a ballot initiative polling voters on the new city, instead opting to file an environmental impact report and try again in 2026.

  Andreessen might not want to wait though. TechCrunch learned this week that the venture capitalist’s family is planning another community in the area as well, using land that his wife’s real estate mogul father, John Arriaga Sr., purchased decades before his death in 2022.

  Arriaga Sr. bought up land in the Bay Area and built office buildings before Silicon Valley was even a thing, laying the groundwork for his family’s fortune. California Forever is doing something similar.

  TechCrunch reporter Margo McCall writes: “California Forever’s strategy mirrors Arriaga’s. Both targeted cheap agricultural land, both operated largely in secrecy, and both set out to establish metropolises before there was any obvious demand for them.”

  These developments sound amazing on paper: walkable cities with lots of green space, good schools, and effective public transit. But the California Forever Project has been controversial among existing residents of Solano County.

  Congressman John Garamendi argued that there isn’t enough space for 400,000 residents and that the nearby Travis Air Force base could be negatively impacted. Plus, the developments could strain local water supplies and raise infrastructure costs.

  So it’s probably a good thing that California Forever took a step back to figure out how to address these issues before putting the proposal to a vote.

  The Arriaga family’s development plans are a bit less intrusive. The land totals around 730 acres and the plan thus far is to build 1,000 homes. The end goal would be to sell the development, whereas California Forever seems intent on developing a techno utopia.

  Is this just a case of a son-in-law following in his father-in-law’s footsteps? We’ll have to wait a few years to find out.

  Pete Mathias:
  Hey everyone, just taking a quick break so we can tell you about the US Strategic Tech Fund from Alumni Ventures. AV is one of the only VC firms focused on making venture capital accessible to individual investors like you. In fact, AV is one of the most active and best-performing VCs in the US, and we co-invest alongside renowned lead investors.

  With AV’s US Strategic Tech Fund, you’d have access to an investment portfolio focused on technologies that are critical to bolstering US national security and economic prosperity. We prioritize three key areas: homeland security, cyber AI and digital strategy, and space innovation. By investing in companies innovating in these areas, you can support early-stage ventures and help encourage sustained growth and technological progress in the United States. If you’re interested in learning more, visit av.vc/funds/strategictech.

  Michael Peri:
  All right, Mike, what do you have?

  Mike Collins:
  Yeah, I mean, this one’s a little dated. I mean, we’re here, what, 28th of August, and this came out a few weeks ago, but I’ve just been meaning to talk about it—which is basically finding this cave on the moon, right?

  Michael Peri:
  Oh yeah. Okay. I remember. Yeah.

  Mike Collins:
  And is that a thing or not? Who knows? We’ve also had the astronauts get stranded in space. “We’re going up for a couple of weeks, hon. No, I’ll see you in February,” kind of thing.

  Michael Peri:
  Yeah, can you imagine that? “I’ll be back over the weekend.”

  Mike Collins:
  Yeah, yeah. It’s just like, “Nope, see you next week.”

  Michael Peri:
  Yeah, exactly.

  Sam Herrick:
  Okay, so in regards to Mike Collins’ breakthrough, we have an article from NASA directly that’s titled New Evidence Adds to Finding Hinting at Network of Caves on the Moon. First off, that’s just a bonkers concept, right?

  I had thrown the article header out a little bit earlier, but I wanted to read a bit of this article for you guys because it is so cool. There’s also a really cool YouTube video that NASA shared in this article by NASA 360 called Lava Tubes: Science Beneath the Surface of the Moon, which is only about a minute and a half. I wanted to share that as well, so that will come up right after this.

  A snippet from this article written by Lonnie Schetman—this came out in July of this year:

  “An international team of scientists using data from NASA’s LRO (Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter) has discovered evidence of caves beneath the moon’s surface. By reanalyzing radar data collected by LRO’s Mini-RF (Miniature Radio Frequency) instrument in 2010, the team found evidence of a cave extending more than 200 feet from the base of a pit. The pit is located 230 miles northeast of the first human landing site on the moon. The full extent of the cave is unknown, but it could stretch for miles beneath the surface.”

  The Mini-RF is operated by the Johns Hopkins Applied Physics Laboratory in Laurel, Maryland. LRO is managed by NASA’s Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Maryland, for the Science Mission Directorate at NASA Headquarters in Washington. Launched in June of 2009, LRO has collected a treasure trove of data with its seven powerful instruments, making an invaluable contribution to our knowledge about the moon.

  NASA is returning to the moon with commercial and international partners to expand human presence in space and bring back new knowledge and opportunities. That’s the sort of technology I mentioned a little earlier. Here’s that YouTube video I talked about. After that, we’ll do the last ad. Again, this video is really cool. Hang tight.

  Jake Bleacher:
  The moon originally was a big ball of magma. Through time, as the crust formed on the surface, the magma on the interior also slowly leaked to the surface. A lava tube is essentially a cave, an enclosed tunnel through which lava flowed. If it was able to drain out, you now have this open cave through which you can conduct some interesting scientific experiments.

  Here on Earth, a research team studies lava tubes as a means for better understanding how we can explore and understand lava tubes on other planets and the moon. From some of our high-resolution images from the Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter, we can actually see pits on the surface of the moon, and it looks like these could be extensive lava tube networks.

  These pathways could be tens to hundreds of meters long, even kilometers long. Understanding lava tubes—where and when they formed on the surface of the moon—is just a really exciting scenario. These caverns have been protected from the space environment, making them an ideal place to collect samples that tell us not only about the moon but also about the solar system in general and how it’s evolved through time.

  Our next step is starting to plan robotic exploration of the moon again. This might involve observations that help confirm the presence of lava tubes or subsurface void spaces. They may even be accessible by robots, or in the future, maybe even humans. To me, that makes them a very interesting and exciting aspect of studying the surface of the moon.

  Speaker 7:
  Do you have a venture capital portfolio of cutting-edge startups? Without one, you could be missing out on enormous value creation and a more diversified personal portfolio. Alumni Ventures, ranked a top-20 VC firm by CB Insights, is the leading VC firm for individual investors. Believe in investing in innovation? Visit av.vc/foundation to get started.

  Mike Collins:
  But it’s the bigger picture of space and investing and people. There are some pretty high-profile people and billionaire space tourism going on. I think people have lost the line a little bit—that this is actually a very important place where real innovation is taking place and infrastructure is being built.

  I was with a group of very young venture capitalists just starting out in their careers. They’re all looking to make their name in something. If you’re 26 and looking to be in this space for the next 40 or 50 years, it feels early—but it’s not. Space is definitely one that would be on my recommended list: get to know it, figure it out, understand where the technology stack is, where it’s going, who’s going to make money, and who’s going to be a pioneer that gets killed.

  Mike Collins:
  There are things that are not 40 years away here. There are people making money in communications, making money in materials, payload—it has legs. One thing about space is it’s an almost infinite possibility for new investing. And again, probably beyond my life, but for future generations it’s a little bit like when I went through the phase of, “Oh, we’re going to do an internet fund,” right? But now, it’s just imbued in all investing.

  I just think space is going to become one of those places where everybody asks, “What’s the next thing in space? What’s the next innovation?” So, I think it has long legs and a big tail. We’re an active investor in it. Do you want to talk about a couple of things from your perspective?

  Michael Peri:
  Yeah.

  Mike Collins:
  We’ll have Sam put more on our screen.

  Michael Peri:
  From Axiom to Impulse to Cesium, yeah. What’s fascinating—and you’re communicating this in a way I also engage with my peers or folks who are generally interested—is that investing in space isn’t just sci-fi anymore. There are real use cases. Yes, you default to the defense use cases and the primes that are there and how you could potentially disintermediate or innovate around it.

  But you’re also seeing real research like turning off gravity to manufacture new pharmaceuticals in space. That’s known research. There are clearly materials that you could bring down to say, “Hey, this is a more sustainable way of mining potentially.” The point is, there are equally as many commercial use cases as there are governments, and we’re only starting to see that.

  I think of the work Pete and Drew are doing on the Strategic Fund—really putting a name out there for ourselves, getting into high-caliber deals—but also AV as a whole, being able to describe these deals and why we’re excited in a way that resonates with everyday people. The more we can do that—and certainly our peers in the industry are doing the same—the more it will exponentially grow what we can accomplish in space, beyond putting on your sci-fi hat and asking, “What else are we going to do out there?” These are very real things with very real benefits.

  Mike Collins:
  And that’s what we’re trying to do here at AV. With the goal of democratizing and bringing more people into this asset class, part of our job is to share our excitement about real businesses that make real money, that can be great investments, and really fascinating technology that’s improving communications, data, and scientific understanding—leading to improvements in human life.

  Michael Peri:
  Yeah, and a little bit of a scary use case, but astronauts are stranded in space right now. The fact that we have a lot more optionality and service providers that we can engage with is interesting. It’s a real-time example demonstrating what we’re doing up there, the capability of intersecting both public and private sectors—not only innovating but partnering together to accomplish whatever mission they set their minds to.

  Mike Collins:
  Yeah, and I’m writing a paper right now on some of the areas we’re investing in that are seeing geometric changes. We’ve seen that for a long time on the computer. Another chart I looked at recently was payload costs—what it costs to get something into space. We’re on a Moore’s Law kind of curve: more options, more commercial activity, reduced costs.

  Elon’s done amazing work there, and NASA’s pretty happy they didn’t sole-source everything when it came to moving people around. So again, the role of the private sector, innovators, risk-takers, capital, and the profit motive—that stuff works. There is a role for the government and there is a role for the private sector, and that includes space. Careers are going to be made, legends are going to be made. The most valuable companies in the world are eventually going to be ones that master space. So we’re going to play, that’s for sure.

  Sam Herrick:
  Okay, and just like our last Three Breakthroughs episode, I’ve been asked by the AV team to share some of the companies in AV PortCo that are in this sector and doing amazing things in space tech.

  We’ve had Impulse Space on the podcast before—that was an awesome episode if you want to go back and listen. That was with Tom Mueller, SpaceX’s first employee. It was a really cool conversation around SpaceX and everything.

  Impulse Space is a startup specializing in developing advanced in-space transportation and propulsion technologies. Their key products include Mira, Helios, and advanced rocket engines.

  Another company is Cesium Astro, a startup developing advanced communication technologies for aerospace applications. They design and manufacture software-defined phased array communication payloads. These systems are used for airborne platforms and in-orbit satellites and spacecraft. Their tech optimizes radio communications between space, air, and ground assets. Their key products include the Nightingale series, the Compaq, and the SDR 1001 Phased Array Systems.

  Finally, Axiom Space, founded in 2016, is a pioneering company in the commercial space industry. They focus on space station development, human spaceflight services, research and innovation, spacesuit development, and commercial space access.

  They’re developing the world’s first commercial space station, the Axiom Station. The plan is to construct modules that initially attach to the ISS, eventually detaching to form independent, fully commercial space stations. They’re targeting a 2026 launch and aiming for completion by the late 2020s.

  Super exciting, innovative stuff coming out of all three companies, and we definitely recommend diving deeper if you’re interested. Let’s round off the episode with the last breakthrough. Thanks.

  Mike Collins:
  Okay, Mike, what’s your third one?

  Michael Peri:
  Talking about careers and stepwise functions and change—this is fascinating for me. It’s an area I like, as with all things that sell into employers or benefits. I think these are really nice solutions that could be “bought, not sold” in that space. But the AI day of reckoning is coming in transforming hiring practices.

  We’ve seen numerous companies in this space. Any day you browse the internet, you’ll see something about new AI interview software and how it’s fundamentally changing how companies evaluate candidates. It’s also raising important questions about fairness and effectiveness.

  It’s been top of mind for me. As you can see from earnings reports and the economy lately, there’s been quite a bit of missed forecasting around jobs.

  Michael Peri:
  I think a lot more people are sitting on the sidelines saying, “I’m applying to a bunch, I’m not seeing anything.” And I think that’s a really fascinating topic to think about because there’s definitely a growing trend in using AI-powered interviewing. These tools will automate the early stages of the hiring process. They can analyze video interviews, assess candidates’ responses, body language, even tone of voice, to provide insights into their suitability for the role.

  On face value, it’s fascinating. It’s going to provide incredible operational leverage, making hiring way more efficient and really identifying the best candidates. However, this trend isn’t without challenges. I think we’re going to face critiques and arguments that AI systems could reinforce potential biases, disadvantageous candidates based on appearance, accents, or other factors unrelated to job performance.

  This is one we’re monitoring from an investment standpoint, and it’s one I enjoy discussing with people because it’s one of those core questions: Is AI going to do too much? Is keeping a human in the loop a good thing? I think this is a prime example of that.

  Mike Collins:
  No, I think it’s a great microcosm of what is going to be an area of constant discussion over the next 10 years. And this is very near term, happening now. It’s walking a line. First of all, hiring is such an art and already full of bias that the bar is actually very low for creating a fairer, more equitable, and more productive system using software. Humans judging other humans is one of the most fraught, bias-rich things you could ever ask a human to do.

  Michael Peri:
  Mike, this is a topic for another day, but do you remember years ago when a study was published about judges saying, “I need to see the person,” and they found that it wasn’t meaningful whatsoever? If anything, it actually introduced more bias.

  Mike Collins:
  The example I’m familiar with, I believe, was a music competition. I think it was on gender. They found that by putting the person behind a curtain, the results were very different. I’m inclined to think this is an area of rapid improvement and a great application for AI. Surely, the software won’t be perfect, the AI won’t be perfect, but like self-driving cars, the standard shouldn’t be perfect.

  The standard should be materially better than the alternative. Study after study has shown that people make hiring decisions emotionally, with a preference for hiring people like them—not just in physical characteristics but in style, body language, posture, and so on. So sign me up.

  Michael Peri:
  Yeah, I’m with you. I think it defaults quickly to policymakers and industry leaders having to collaborate on this. You have to audit for bias and establish clear standards. You could also tune AI to identify things you would never catch otherwise, right?

  Mike Collins:
  Exactly. I think there’s a huge bias toward fancy schools that’s probably over-indexed in our society. “Oh, Mike Collins went to school X, Mike Peri went to school Y.” There are all kinds of biases wrapped up in that. Could an AI system evaluate work quality instead? I think that’s where we’re heading.

  There’s also the positive side—AI can help with recruiting and coaching. Say an employee is struggling. AI could help coach them to present better or improve performance. At the end of the day, I said this to my board recently: in the context of leaders of companies using AI assistants to help them with their jobs, I think very shortly there will be two types of founders, two types of CEOs—AI-assisted and former. That’s the world we’re moving into.

  Bringing it back to this point, if someone heads up HR or People and Culture, their career move is to get really good at picking, using, and balancing these systems with human touch—letting computers do what they do well and humans do what they do well.

  So yeah, I think it’s a fascinating area. Like you said, it’s a microcosm of the conversations we’ll be having repeatedly in the coming years. Very exciting stuff. All right, Mike. Excellent.

  Michael Peri:
  Awesome.

  Mike Collins:
  Good conversation. We’ll do it again next week.

  Michael Peri:
  Yeah, talk to you next week. See you, Mike.

  Mike Collins:
  Bye.

  Sam Herrick:
  Thanks again for tuning into the Tech Optimist. If you enjoyed this episode, we’d really appreciate it if you’d give us a rating on whichever podcast app you’re using, and remember to subscribe to keep up with each episode. The Tech Optimist welcomes any questions, comments, or segment suggestions. Please email us at [email protected] with any of those, and be sure to visit our website at av.vc. As always, keep building.